Friends of Margate Caves website is go!

How fabulously fast these good people have worked to get a website up and running and also fully constituted. Check out: http://www.margatecaves.co.uk

We also received this info from the group:

"Please circulate to anyone whom you think would be interested in the future of the Caves.

Good evening everyone,

Over the past three weeks, I've been struck by the number of people I've met who have enduring, visceral and tangible memories of being inside the Margate Caves. I've met people who've returned to Margate/Cliftonville to live and who visited the caves every time they came to Margate/Cliftonville as children on holiday and even now still regret their closure in 2006. The scientific, geological, historical and cultural heritage of the Caves needs to be conserved and it is because of this that I am forwarding the following information from the Friends of the Margate Caves.

A message from the newly formed "Friends of Margate Caves"--

Thanet District Council has submitted a Planning Application to build houses on part of the Margate Caves site. The community reaction to this application has led to the formation of "The Friends of MargateCaves" (FOMC).

The FOMC have two aims:

• To safeguard the Margate Caves and gain recognition for the heritage site as one of national interest and importance

• To re-open Margate Caves as a prominent, popular, public amenity for the benefit of all who visit or reside in Margate/Cliftonville/Thanet

There’s strength in numbers so please join us! We’ll send you regular email updates on the latest Caves news and FOMC activities. Simply email info@margatecaves.co.ukwith Please make me a friend in the subject line.

The website for FRIENDS OF MARGATE CAVES is now up and running. Please consider leaving your comments, suggestions, memories and a donation to the FOMC www.margatecaves.co.uk

The Friends welcome any and all contributions. The issue of building houses on the Caves site has been simmering for a while and despite assurances that the plans were on hold, everyone has been amazed to see that very recently TDC cleared the land, chopped down tree(s) and poured concrete to seal off the main entrance to the Caves.

The current TDC planning application flies in the face of the results of its own Margate Caves Consultation (2009). Over 90% of respondents opposed the sale and development of the site. Specific concerns voiced included infilling of any part of the Caves and the potential loss of a tourist attraction for the town. Representations included one from Margate Civic Society and a petition of 2,592 signatures.

The Caves are an important and fascinating part of our area's tourism offer. Their potential worth is far greater than that of seven poorly-designed houses, which would be built immediately adjacent to a conservation area. With Margate on the brink of a bright new tourism future, FOMC believe that this is an ill-conceived proposal that will extinguish any hope of the Caves being re-opened as a tourist attraction.

If you would like to read the application, you should go to:

http://www.ukplanning.com/thanet

and search for application number: F/TH/10/0546

If you would like to object to the application, click the "Comment on Application" button.

You will need to complete your name and address. Then click Object to the proposal.

There is also a Save the Caves Facebook Group"

Spread the word!

Save Margate Caves / Photo call Monday 31st Jan 13.30

Next photo call with the Thanet Gazette at the Caves site on Monday 31st Jan (that's tomorrow, folks!) 13.30. Please come if you can. Will take a few minutes and you can go on your way. The more people turn up and show their support will really help. Please stop by and support the cause to safeguard the future of Margate Caves.

Margate Caves meeting tomorrow 27th Jan at The Shell Grotto

It was really disappointing to hear about the clearance of the cafe and shop at The Caves site this week. And to have also received a letter from TDC's Doug Brown outlining that the authority would be sealing the entrance and that they were seen as a liability. Many residents had attended the meeting back in September at The Shell Grotto which ended on a hopeful note that some way forward could be found. So if you would like to see Margate Caves saved and reopened, please see if you can attend the meeting tomorrow at 5.30 at The Shell Grotto. It's not over till it's finally over. Not everything that's marvellous in Margate is on the seafront. Especially apt that the meeting will be at The Shell Grotto.

http://www.thisiskent.co.uk/news/Dark-days-caves-diggers-roll-action/article-3136375-detail/article.html

Last minute call to object to the development of houses over Margate Caves

Thanet District Council - who own Margate Caves - has applied for planning permission to build houses on the site. The application says that the houses will not prevent the Caves re-opening, but my opinion is that if this development goes ahead it's almost impossible to see a viable future for the tourist attraction.

It takes only a minute or two to object to the planning application. If you can spare the time, and of course if you agree, we’d be grateful for your support. The deadline for Comments is Tuesday, the 27th.

You can view the application by going here

http://www.ukplanning.com/ukp/custom/forwards/selectandsearch.jsp?council=Thanet%20District%20Council&fwd=search/

And searching for Application No: F/TH/10/0546 (Can’t provide a direct link as it changes daily!)

If you haven't time, and would like to object, you can add your name and address and send the note below to thandi.zulu@thanet.gov.uk and a send a copy to cllr-Clive.hart@thanet.gov.uk and cllr-Linda.aldred@thanet.gov.uk .

Dear Thandi

I am fully in support of Claire Blackwell’s statement below. These houses should not be built here.

Best wishes

[name and address]

I believe that this proposal does nothing to safeguard the Margate Caves and almost completely extinguishes any prospect of them re-opening as a tourist attraction.

In addition, the houses proposed are of poor design, and would represent a discordant and derivative addition to the built environment immediately adjacent to a conservation area.

Many millions of pounds of public money have been invested in Margate’s future as a tourist resort, both at Turner Contemporary and Dreamland. We stand on the brink of a bright new future for the town, but tourism experts speak of the need for a ‘broad offer’ ie a range of attractions for the visitor to enjoy.

This proposal removes all of the Caves’ roadside presence, thus rendering them invisible from the highway. More importantly it takes any land that might be utilised for ancillary uses, such as a gift shop and café. It is generally accepted that secondary spend is vital to a tourist attraction’s viability, often accounting for at least 50% of turnover. The removal of land for this purpose effectively renders the Caves unviable as a business proposition. (The damp conditions in the Caves themselves preclude the creation of an underground shop/café.)

The proposal sees the loss of the original access tunnel (created in 1914 by tunnelling from the cellars of the Vicarage for incumbents to gain safety during air raids). Indeed it suggests that this tunnel is infilled. There is a suggestion that Forsters Entrance could be brought back into use, but details as to how this might be achieved are completely lacking.

Forsters Tunnel was filled with rubble and sealed off after the bombing of Holy Trinity Church and Northumberland House. Research suggests that it was last used in 1941, so we cannot know – without extensive surveying – whether it represents a suitable alternative entrance.

Crucially, there is no assurance that Forsters Entrance will be opened before the existing entrance is closed.

There is no provision for testing the ground under the proposed development for any unknown caves/voids. There are known caves across Northdown Road under Flint House so it is not inconceivable that there may be something south of the Vortigern Caves, under the proposed development site. Also it is known that there was at least one WW1 'dug-out' dug somewhere near the Caves – however, the exact location is unknown.

Adam Single, the Archaelogical Officer at Kent County Council, has reported that there is potential for iron age and Romano-British remains on the site. This is, therefore, a potentially important historical site even without considering the Vortigern Caves.

Lastly, this proposal flies in the face of the results of TDC’s own Margate Caves Consultation (2009). Over 90% of respondents opposed the sale and development of the site. Specific concerns voiced included infilling of any part of the Caves and the potential loss of a tourist attraction for the town. Representations included one from Margate Civic Society and a petition of 2,592 signatures.

The Margate Caves are an important and fascinating part of the town’s tourism offer. Their potential worth is far greater than that of seven poorly-designed houses.

Claire Blackwell
Trustee, Friends of the Shell Grotto

As posted by marvellous Michael on the other side of the isle, permission has been applied for to build on the Margate Caves site. To download the files from Uk Planning, you will have to navigate to:

http://www.ukplanning.com/thanet

And search directly for planning application 10/0546 because the links keep changing from TDC.

The design and access statement states that advice has been sought from conservation and planning officers and it was decided to take design cues from the neighbouring application for Capital House that had at the time just been submitted.

The amount of dwellings proposed is 7. They state 'the land to be developed is to the south of the caves and does not encroach on land above the caves or preclude to the reopening of the caves in the future....The land above the caves will be secured with fencing and access retained from Trinity Square.'

In my opinion, these are truly uninspiring designs in very close proximity to one of Margate's main heritage sites and possible future attraction if it could be reopened in the future. It's an extremely sensitive site and deserves to be fully debated.

Here is the Archaeological Survey document from 2008

If you have an opinion or background information please comment here and also add comment to TDC planning for the application.

Margate Caves proposed as wedding venue

What a brilliant idea! I was really shocked to see recent talk of filling the Margate Caves up and building a car park on top. Can't remember where I saw that. I'd love to see the caves opened and maintained. It's one of those original Margate attractions that would have universal appeal along with the wonderful Shell Grotto, a heritage funfair at Dreamland etc.

The Thanet Times says Kevin Crace, who is also trying to save and revive the Westgate Pavilion, has put in a bid to save the caves and get it licensed as a wedding venue. Looking at the shape of the tunnels, it does look churchlike. I hope Kevin is successful. We need more ideas like that in town.

What does everyone else think?